Transcription of World Watchers International

Tape #365 December 1, 1978

Time length: 60 min.

Mae Brussell: Good evening. This is Mae Brussell in Carmel, California. This is tape number 365, and it's December 1, 1978.

This may be kind of a rambling tape for you because it's really hard for me to put my feelings together; I'm kind of punchy. It will be two weeks tomorrow since the shootings took place down in Guyana. And for those of you who live in California, I don't have to describe the media barrage that we've had on television and radio constantly. Usually I stick with news over the printed word.

I'm going to be talking about the killing of Congressman Ryan and the people down in Guyana and the Peoples Temple, and then the culmination of the murder of Mayor Moscone in San Francisco and a member of the Board of Supervisors there, Mr. Harvey Milk.

All this came down within a short period of time, and if I can I'm going to try to make some sense out of it if for you and for myself. I've worked hard on it the last two weeks and I think I can give you an overall summary view of what I see. Then in the next few weeks I'll give you the specifics to fill in the picture. I'll give you the outline now of the way I've broken down the Guyana-San Francisco mess and then you can follow that outline if you have the patience, or are so inclined, and then read the news that came out preceding, or in the future, and see along the framework that I'm seeing.

It didn't surprise me that the next stage after the Zodiac killings in California and the Zebra killings and the SLA and the Strangler and the Manson Family massacres and all of these other bloody California syndromes that I've talked about for so long -- it didn't surprise me that out of that racism, out of that counterintelligence operation, and the meanness of the powers that be that run our State and Federal Offices, that such a thing can happen as happened in Guyana. It didn't surprise me. I don't like to say I told you so, and I don't want to tell you how bad the future is going to be, but I still feel pretty sick about this.

I think that one picture is worth a thousand words, and you should get Newsweek and Time this week, and People magazine, and look at them and take whatever information you can out of them. And remember what happened here: not only did this massacre take place down in Guyana, but what followed was the most intense racism, the way it was handled, and the collusion of the Federal Government. Those are the things that we will go into for the next few weeks.

I see relationships of this event down there to my past research on assassinations and the SLA, and as I say, the California violences.

Of course one common denominator through all of this -- going from the Kennedy assassination right up to what Newsweek has on the front cover "The Cult of Death" -- is Mark Lane. He is prominent at both ends of the spectrum. He was right there in Dallas with Marina Oswald as soon as John Kennedy was killed, and he was out there hanging in a tree or in a swamp at the time that these people died down in Guyana.

Next week on the tape for those of you who don't live in California and didn't hear it, I think I'll reproduce his press conference, the one he had in San Francisco a month ago; what he said about the Peoples Temple. And then his interview when he came home from Guyana. He had a press conference Wednesday, October 4, 1978 in San Francisco in which he said Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple were being harassed. The headline was Peoples Temple Colony Harassed. And he said he was satisfied that the concentration camp charges against Jonestown were false, and he thought that people had been misused and made these remarks.

He declined to name the agent that he had talked to but he hinted because Jim Jones had been harassed that he was going to file this large multi-million dollar lawsuit in ninety days. He was going to name as defendants the FBI, the CIA, the State Department, the Internal Revenue Service, the Treasury Department, and the Postal Service, because he said there's a conspiracy against 1200 people -- 1200 American expatriates. He said it's an embarrassment for the government because of its tremendous success down there; He said it was a beautiful place to live.

The Peoples Temple also got out a newsletter which they mailed to me October 21, 1978. Mark Lane said:

"I've been deeply impressed with what I've seen there at Jonestown. It makes me almost weep to see such an incredible experience with such vast potential for the human spirit and soul of this country to be cruelly assaulted by our intelligence agents."

And then Charles Garry, the attorney for Peoples Temple, said he went to Jonestown, and he enthusiastically refers to that as "a community where racism, sexism, ageism have been overcome as a new social order. An answer to a better life."

And Don Freed -- they're quite a trio: Don Freed, Charles Garry, and Mark Lane. I've known them quite a few years. Mark the longest. Don Freed said in the release:

"Martin Luther King, if he could see Jonestown, would recognize it as the next step in his agenda, and say, 'One, two, three, many more Jonestowns.'"

And then the Sun Reporter out in the bay area had some more of the press conference of Mark Lane. He told about Federal Communications hassling them because they wanted a short wave station for doctors to get medical care to save lives. It turns out that on that short wave they had all kinds of coded messages and even discussed with Charles Garry the plans to kill 1200 people down there if necessary.

In his Press Conference Lane described Jonestown as a model community. The visits there gave him a glimpse of the future. He added that the government of Guyana is particularly pleased at the success of the Peoples Temple, since it is a model for other Caribbean countries to follow.

That was Mark Lane. He described the education of people in Jonestown as more sophisticated and successful than in United States schools. These men said there was no sexism, no ageism, no racism. He said there's no money in Jonestown; there is no need for it.

Of course what followed, according to Mr. Layton -- one of the suspects for killing Congressman Ryan -- he said there was a footlocker of three million dollars cash being taken out in the woods. Then there were millions of dollars in Swiss bank accounts and in Guyana, which would total many, many millions of dollars.

It turns out these people were crowded in rooms like a slave ship and worked twelve hour shifts, and cried for food. The white staff had meals, regular meals and dinners. And the blacks worked out in the fields -- only two people worked in the fields that weren't black -- and they were forced to work and grow out there.

Mark Lane said, "There's no money in Jonestown and no need for it." And they were taking gold from these people and diamonds and jewelry and personal objects and had accrued from them, and other monies, millions and millions of dollars.

Mark Lane was particularly impressed by the quality of medical care at Jonestown. Where the community's 1200 inhabitants are served by 70 health workers. "Natives cared free of charge for native Indians," he said, "and Albert Schweizer's famous hospital in Africa was compared to what Jim Jones was doing in Jonestown."

That's why I want to play the tape for you next week, so you can hear Mark Lane rave about the medical clinic that people came from all over the world to see. And the accredited college.

I'm particularly quoting Mark Lane to start my series on this because I'm very proud to say that I've hated his guts and tried to expose him for years. Any of you who've listened to KGO in the San Francisco area, the all day talk show -- it goes on all day and night -- I've been tape-recording people just lambasting Mark Lane and Charles Garry, and really out for their guts and outraged at what they did, knowing what they knew in advance, and what they know now. They're attorneys. You should hear what my complaints about Lane were. The public has taken over because they have seen for the first time what he is.

As I said, he was impressed by the medical quality of Jonestown. They had 70 health workers serving only 1200 Native Americans that would have been taken down there. He compared it to Albert Schweizer's hospital. He said he even had a 2 1/2 hour physical exam during one visit to Jonestown.

These are three different press releases that came out exactly one month before this terrible rash of murders took place.

In contrast to that, the San Francisco Chronicle has an article -- and you'll be seeing a lot more about this subject -- Tuesday November 28th: 'Robot' Behavior of Ryan Murder Suspect

Laurence Layton, the man charged with killing Congressman Leo Ryan...displayed increasingly peculiar behavior even before he left for Guyana last May. Larry, 32, acted as if he were in a "post-hypnotic trance" as he was drawn into the Peoples Temple, which he joined in 1968.

He came home once to his family in the East Bay in a full surgical gown and jumped into the swimming pool. His brother, Tom Layton, 36 years old, wondered if his brother was hypnotized and turned into a robot to take orders.

His father, Laurence Layton, said, "He was a robot."

I called Laurence Layton [Sr.] this week on the telephone and I'll give you some more of that conversation. His wife had died down in Jonestown. One daughter, Debbie, had escaped and is under guard twenty-four hours a day because she was the one blowing the whistle. It's the one son down there that's being charged with the murder of Congressman Ryan and the others in the shootout.

They said that he was a robot when he came home, and that he had taken orders. The Layton Family was wondering what protection he would have at a trial, since he seemed to be a robot in the hands of Jim Jones.

The father is a professor at San Jose State, I believe, and he taught at the University of California. He recognized that his son was really in a post-hypnotic state.

The San Jose Mercury, November 29th 1978 has a two-page article. From my ten papers a day I have been inundated with news, but this two-page article here just counter-acts the kind of bullshit that Mark Lane was saying a month ago. And Charles Garry knew about it. He was very revealing on KGO this week, but the San Jose Mercury just gave some examples. Jim Jones had said to the people down there:

"You complain that we watch every move and judge you -- and it's true...I make allowances for what I see you doing that seems other than it should be. And then on the other hand I watch your pain and it tears me up inside."

He had a population there of eighty to ninety percent black. He was described as being a secret racist; that he wanted to enslave and kill as many blacks as possible. A man named Richard Clayton said that he thought the whole purpose was to kill as many blacks as possible.

"He really only trusted whites," said Juanita Bogue, a 21-year-old survivor who was one of the two whites out of 75 persons who worked in the fields. Her sister was the other.
    If a black person accused a white person of being a racist, the way Jones responded would make you think he was a racist himself.

He would praise all the white people in the radio room and in the office -- they were all white. He'd pit whites against blacks. He had a constructed area where they would meet and he'd argue that whites should be consumed with guilt, and they make blacks suffer. Then he would tell them on the loudspeaker that the best workers he has are white.

Mrs. Bogue says Jim Jones was pushing racism wherever he could. After he arrived in Jonestown he had a religious proclamation on the steps of a Georgetown Catholic Church, which I think is interesting, and then went into Jonestown where he stayed until he died -- This is Jim Jones.

This particular article tells about isolation and power. I'll give you more about people being stripped nude and forced to swim in the swimming pool in front of people, and then were beaten until they were bloodied.

They had no freedom; you couldn't leave. If you talked about it you got a beating and you were put on public demonstration. A crime down there was to talk about wanting to go back to the United States. One man, Gerald Parks, talked about it and he was dragged at 5:30 in the morning out of a jail cell and was put to digging ditches for 12 hours. He couldn't take a break from 5:30 in the morning until the evening. He had to keep doing that down in Jonestown.

The labor was free. The slave labor built a house for Jim Jones and he had a screen door and a mosquito net which nobody else had down there. Then he'd pour over his files. He used all kinds of drugs and amphetamines and injections.

The other people slept in community rooms that were fourteen people to a room, ten by twelve feet, in a climate that is very warm and sticky with no way out.

There was a port cut-off, the Port Kaituma, and there was absolutely no way to escape from that island.

The blacks worked twelve hours a day. They got a spoonful or two spoonfuls of rice. Some of them wrote letters about passing by the windows and seeing the food and other people eating it.

Jim Jones had tremendous sexual hang-ups, and we'll go into some of those as time goes on, on the other tapes. Mark Lane had a press conference and said, "No racism and no sexism." Jones complained that his penis was too big, and that he had to suffer by relieving himself all the time. He taught people to be homosexuals; he told them the virtue of homosexuality. The men were to sleep with men, women with women. He said that way you didn't produce babies. Which sounds more like Adolf Hitler than any kind of real socialism; this was the same kind of socialism that Adolf Hitler had.

There's a story here about two people that took a liking to each other: there was a man and a woman (a young couple) and she worked in the bakery. She allegedly gave him a cookie. Jim Jones heard about it, so he put a mattress up on the stand of the pulpit there and made them take off their clothes and said they could make love right here and now. They brought in the mattress and tried to get them to demonstrate because they took an attraction towards each other.

In this review in the Mercury -- and this is just one article, I'm sure many of you have collected them in the last two weeks -- he used people like play things; he toyed with them. They were very simple.

He picked guards -- some the age of high school graduates, that carried guns around the camp -- that conformed to every thought. It goes on to say that he had homosexual relations with all the guards; they were his lovers. And he'd announce it to the people. Those were the people that guarded the camp. And those are a lot of the people that are down in Jonestown now under arrest that are witnesses for the trial.

Tim Carter, from Burlingame, California, a former heroin addict, was Jones' PR man in Georgetown. He's the one who helped with the bullying around, and walking with the gun and scaring and terrorizing the people who were working. Sometimes he would tell them they were going on a trip to Cuba, and they'd take one truck to a boat. There was a harbor there with a boat that goes out to the river. He'd make other people walk 15 miles to Port Kaituma, and then the trip would be called off and they didn't go to Cuba. That reminded me of the people that worked in the Nazi concentration camps at I.G. Aushwitz that walked six miles to work, and six miles back in rain or snow and no shoes. And if they died on the way they died. And that's the way they worked; he walked these people.

Again from this article in the Mercury:

Jones fidgeted and protested the visit [of Ryan]. He wavered, and finally allowed Ryan to enter. It was the end when he allowed Ryan to walk in and crack the spell.

A box of cyanide had been delivered; a package came to Ryan's compound to "Richard Clark" and it was stored away in case Congressman Ryan saw something he wasn't supposed to see. A member of the crowd broke ranks when Ryan was about to leave and nine of them wanted to leave with him. And this article says:

"You should have seen Jones. He offered us money not to leave."

The person who is down there is recounting. They couldn't believe that a few could get out with Congressman Ryan.

They also offered Ryan a large sum of money in Washington, D.C. not to come, but he turned it down and insisted on coming.

On future tapes I'll go back to quotations of many articles just in case you don't have them, but I just want to show you the sexism and the racism from just one article on one day. The type of stuff that's coming out and the robots. I think that's interesting because Mark Lane was adamant against my talking about mind control in 1975 at the Conspiracy Conference in Boston. And I've said that many times. When I was at Flo Kennedy's house in the summer-spring of 1975 he said, "I'll never appear with you publicly. People know you're crazy. There's no evidence of mind control in the United States."

I wonder how deep Lane's relationship was to this Jim Jones operation going on. He came in the last month to be the attorney for Jim Jones, but how did Jones select Mark Lane, a man who was adamant against mind control, and the Intelligence [Agency] using mind control, when that's what this operation was about? And Lane turned out to be their attorney.

This is a very dangerous thing for two attorneys like Charles Garry and Mark Lane to assure the American people and the Congress and the news media of the enviable institute; medical institute; educational institute; the privileges they had. Lane said the reason the United States was fighting this operation of Jim Jones down in Guyana was that we were embarrassed by the success of what he could achieve. And it would be an embarrassment to the United States to see that people could leave the United States and live without drugs or television.

It turned out they were heavily drugged; they were tranquilized; there were tranquilizers and drugs in the food. Drugs everywhere. A laboratory filled with drugs. And Jones was on drugs. Mark Lane had said the United States Government is embarrassed because there is no sexism and no narcotics, and they're doing their thing so eloquently that it's a model for other countries that would embarrass any country to see.

That was the Jonestown Mark Lane described. Not a year ago, not two years ago, not even three, but October 1978 -- one month before Congressman Ryan went down there.

Now we get to the nitty gritty of what is Jonestown about? What happened? What is going to happen in the future with the hit men? The organized crime? The seven or eight million dollars cash to kill public officials? To kill newspaper people? What does it mean? How did it form? Where is it going? And that is what I'm going to do with you the rest of the time on this tape.

I hope I can do the outline on this tape, and on the other side, so that we can go into the details next week.

I took all of the information of the two weeks that came down, and I'm going to read you the outline that I'm working with. I've already broken it into approximately seventy different manila folders. Into each of these folders I will put the articles that I've collected, or write up the tapes from the radio talk shows going almost twenty-four hours a day for two weeks and into the future. And then come up with a story bigger and even more frightening than even the SLA article. I wrote "The SLA Is The CIA". Well, this is the baby of the SLA. It produces a monster bigger because the questions I asked in 1974 weren't answered. If they were answered I promise you we wouldn't have this in '78. If you don't have that article you can order it from me. They're a dollar plus postage. Read it carefully.

But this is the outline I'm doing on the Jonestown massacre:

In the first section I have Chronology of Events, because the chronology is always important. The dates when he went to Brazil. The day he moved up to Ukiah. He goes to Brazil for a year and a half, he's with the CIA, then he has $100,000 and goes to Ukiah. The date he was in Bloomington, Indiana, years before Emily and William Harris were there. But what dates were equivalent to the Georgetown Foundation formed in Bloomington, Indiana that Tom Charles Huston was later a part of? And Spiro Agnew?

The chronology of Jim Jones, of the land purchase, and of the assurances to people that everything was going all right. Their lives. When they appeared to be robots. Anything that has to do with time sequences will go into one section called Chronology.

Then always is the motive, the script, the summary of what is the camp about. I have five Roman numeral sections. This is section one with five sections under it. And always there is a motive. When I do my research I come up with what I think is the motive, and then I look for all the supportive evidence. If it doesn't support what I think is the motive I can change it later, but gauging by the two weeks of news and my past research, I would say that there was more to Jonestown than what you think was happening.

I think that clinic of seventy medical people was for experimentation. I think it was to smear all the democrats by giving Jones a role by being instrumental with everybody from Senator Humphrey and Shirley Chisolm and Bella Abzug, or the Carters, and Willie Brown, and Dymally, and Mayor Moscone in San Francisco; to smear all the Democrats and get them terribly involved with something that comes out corrupt and tainted with racism and murder and death.

It outdoes Watergate. Watergate was in '72, and the seeds of this came down in '72 and began to blossom in '73.

If you should see the movie "The Boys From Brazil," I would call this "The Boys From Guyana."

I'm going to go into the contingency plan. That's next underneath here in this first Roman numeral section that I have. One: the script was to have a place to experiment on black people; mind control; electrodes; sexual deprivation; fear; mass suicides; test emotions of people who are known to be addicts. Those who aren't are tested for violence, and so forth. And have a testing program, an experimental program where you don't give a damn about the people, but test them.

The problem was that if any person came in, whether it was Congressman Ryan or any single person, they might have seen the seeds of what you saw at Aushwitz, or Dachau, or Treblinka.

In the event that an invading army came, whether it was one newsperson, or one person who left with information, in the event that they came, there had to be a contingency plan to destroy all people involved. Because we would find out that they had electrode implants or experimentation stages. I'll go into this further and in detail. I think this is why the Guyana government didn't go in. Our State Department didn't go in until those bodies were rotted beyond recognition. The Army could have been in there in four hours. Our fleet was in Cuba in Guantanamo. We have military bases in Venezuela, and certainly over in Trinidad, and all around. And besides that, the property was rented by Jim Jones. He was an American citizen, so I don't see how much it had to do with the Guyana government. There was an airport there. We had experience in jungles in Vietnam. He had clearings there; he had vegetable gardens where helicopters could arrive to take dead bodies away. So they could have arrived on the premises to come in with troops immediately. The minute a woman was killed in Georgetown and her 3 children had their throats cut, the troops should have been in there within hours. And if it was dark at night, they should have been in there in the morning.

I believe that there were about forty-five people in Georgetown who had lived in Jonestown who could have identified the bodies within 24 hours. They had the list of members there. Families could have flown down from San Francisco. Within eight hours they could have gone to New York and then down to Georgetown. It wasn't that difficult. It didn't have to cost $10 million to send them to Dover Airfield and have the bodies decayed and rotten and out in the sun. I think the reason they stalled was to make sure that it would be impossible to determine anything on them or to see their faces. That's why I think they were lying face down. Many of these children were wards of the court of California. They all came from San Francisco in the juvenile court and had been given to Jim Jones for experimentation -- and I'll back this up with research I had done in 1972 and 1973. Somebody would have recognized that their kids had been shipped down there.

Circumstances Under Which They Died: The children were forced by the adults to take poison. It wasn't a suicide, it was murder. Those that didn't take it were going to be shot. Because there was no autopsy they can't determine the cause of death; they've already embalmed them. They can't collect insurance because they're not identified. There's a lot of complications here and not a single one of them had to take place. They could have been in there within eight hours and cleared everything out, or been well on their way to clearing it out.

The contingency was that in case anybody found out what was going on in that place every one would have to die. They had the weapons, they had the cyanide, they had drugs, they had tranquilizers. The key is what did they have to know? If these were simply poor black people down in a community in South America, why would you need hit squads now, with two to three million dollars to float around and murder anybody that talks? The only thing they could talk about is what they were doing down there. These were poor people with no education, drug addicts, some whites but not that many; a handful of people. What in the world would be the secret? If they wanted to go with him? If they were mesmerized by him? If they took [cyanide], like Time magazine says: "The Cult of Death." Was the Cult of Death the people inside the compound, or the forty or fifty people in Georgetown who know kept the ranks, the goon squads, to murder anybody who got out?

The Cast of Characters. Of course I'll go into the background and biography of where they got their education and medical training. So far there has only been one doctor named out of a medical team of seventy -- this "Doctor Schacht" who went to medical school in Mexico. He administered the cyanide with a nurse, and he's dead. Or they said he's dead. We don't know about the nurse.

The first section I'm doing under Roman numeral one will be Chronology. The summary of the purpose which I say, and later you'll see, why I believe it was a center for experimentation. As I say these were the Boys From Guyana and because of his time in Brazil with the CIA and wanting to go to Argentina and traveling and money and food brought to him by the American Embassy, it could easily have been a continuation of cloning or experiments on women or children. We don't know what was going on because the bodies were all turned over face down and were rotted before any person was allowed [to get to them] -- and then only the U.S. Army -- after they were completely rotten and putrid in the sun. So it's impossible to look in their uteruses or in their bodies and even begin to know what kind of experiments were carried out.

I believe Time magazine or Newsweek said this week that there were electrodes done on the children's arms and legs. That's the kind of experimentation I think was going on down in Jonestown. Not a very pretty picture, is it? But this is what I think was going down in Jonestown.

The section I'm doing under Roman numeral number two has to do with the contingency plans, specifically A) Suicide:

On the next side we'll do more on this outline.



Good evening. This is side two of tape 365, and it's December 1st, 1978. This is Mae Brussell in Carmel.

In addition to the suicide studies, I think it's important to separate the division of not only who was murdered at close range, who died among this huge amount of people, but who lived. There are about 40 or 50 people under house arrest right now in a hotel in Guyana. It would be interesting to see if they're all white. I understand that the goon squad, known as the basketball team, was in Georgetown the day that the mass so-called suicide (the forced murders) took place. And they were the clean-up team, and that these are the people that the handful of remaining people are afraid of because they were the torturers; the people that did the beatings; that watched the field workers for twelve hours; and had guns to see that no one escaped, and so forth.

Who lived? We know Mark Lane and Charles Garry lived. But the question is how many blacks -- the handful that flew into Kennedy Airport this week. How many of that whole group are the "goon squad" that will not be prosecuted for killing the people in the compound? You see, they will say, "Those people chose suicide." I guess the only murder charges will probably be the ones for the Congressman and the newspaper people and the shooting of the aides at the airport, and not for for murders inside Jonestown. It's as if those people had no legal rights; they were forced to die. Nobody will be charged with their deaths.

One important category of research to follow in this are the finances; the money that Jim Jones had in Indiana, and the money in Brazil and up in Ukiah and San Francisco. And the purchase of Guyana. And then the cold cash he had left.

The use of aliases of various people involved here.

And of course there's the tell-tale "diary." It wouldn't go without a good communist plot -- even though he was accused, or they suggested, that he had been with the CIA in Brazil and at the U.S. Embassy, and higher-ups in the Federal Government. Right away on the corpse there was supposed have been a suicide note left talking about communism. And the remark made when these millions of dollars were put in a footlocker to take it out to the jungle and give it to the Soviet Embassy. I'm very sure that it was not intended for the Soviet Embassy, but that was the story when the fascists' concentration camp broke apart. They still thought of saving the money. In fact, the men that took the money out have seen their wives and children die inside. Instead of rushing in to save them they took the trunk with the money and went out into the jungle.

Of course it would be interesting to see the past arrest of Jim Jones, and his links with organized crime -- that's one section of its own.

In the psychological profile of Jim Jones you see all kinds of stories about being lonely as a child, his mother worked in a factory, and his father was gassed in World War I. We get that human interest story that we got about Lee Harvey Oswald and his family, or James Earl Ray and his family. I remember Life magazine had a picture of James Earl Ray after he was charged with killing Martin Luther King. It made out that they were terrible derelicts, and had them out to be the poorest kind of people, hardly existing. Now you hear the House Select Committee on Assassinations telling about the high tentacles of politics that James Earl Ray's two brothers had in St. Louis, Missouri, and the contract to kill Martin Luther King. And they had clout around town, even though they were real bums. They were with the extreme right-wing. They were hardly separable. Ray was just a loner. We'll get that psychological profile of Jim Jones as compared to the political clout he had.

It's interesting that the State Department got more mail on Jim Jones than almost any single thing in the years 1977-1978 and assured everybody that they had been to Guyana from Georgetown to Jonestown at least twenty times or more and that everything was all right. It was only Congressman Ryan who had direct experiences: friends of his or constituents that had disappeared or died and that touched his heart. Then he personally said, "What the hell, I'm going down there." The State Department did nothing to protect the people down there. They were told of these beatings, and articles were written. New West had an article. The other Congressmen seemed to pass it off, and everyone passed the buck, such as the FBI and the State Department. I think they did it with good reason because if it was a medical control center then they were ordered not to touch it. It's similar to the Manson Family being at the Spahn Ranch in California and the Sheriff's office got complaints all the time and they were ordered to turn their face down and not to touch it; you don't touch Charlie.

I think the Federal Government, from Jimmy Carter and Mr. Brzezinski, right on down to Health, Education, and Welfare, and every government agency, were instructed: "Don't touch them. But in the event that the armor is cracked, then everyone be prepared to die." I think after the New West article, and after Congressman Ryan got interested in this, and some lawsuits were coming up in San Francisco, they had to go ahead and kill everybody before anyone got any idea of what was going on there.

I will take all of the articles on the Ukiah church and study those. Jones went from Brazil with $100,000 and opened up a mental institution in Ukiah, which could be the beginning of mind and brain control. It was called "Happy Acres." And it wasn't just a Happy Acres farm. There was a guard, watch dogs, a watchtower, barbed wire. There was secrecy wherever Jim Jones went.

If he had the clout to make social changes, produce votes, and be among the in-crowd -- there's a picture, again, in People this week of them with George Moscone and Rosalynn Carter -- he had a kind of protection, because it's really hard to break that inner circle unless you are producing something the government really wants. And to be able to produce two thousand votes is nothing. Martin Luther King could have a million, or a half million, people behind him at the Washington Monument, or the Poor People's March. He had no barbed wire and no guns and no stories of beating and clubbing.

So the protection that Jones had from the San Francisco police, the juvenile courts, the Attorney General's office in California, the United States Attorney General, the Congress, the State Department, and the Guyana government is totally different than the profile. The blame will be put on Jim Jones for what happened, just as World War Two was put upon Adolf Hitler, or Watergate was put upon Richard Nixon.

But that's only a fraction of the problem. That's one thing to keep very clear, that the funding and the political clout before the act was very, very powerful. But what did they do after Congressman Ryan was there?

The main thing to keep in mind out of all this is that no matter what kind of a nut Jim Jones was, no matter what he said he wanted, no matter how the people fell for him, no matter what they gave him: he had the clout that after a United States Congressman was killed, and some major newspaper people from this country, the Guyana Government that was put in by the CIA wouldn't touch the place. Guyana first said, "We can't come in until the next day. It's five o'clock at night and it's dark." And everybody had to stay out in the darkness. The first hint that the government had a hands-off policy was that there was an army plane in Guyana and persons at the airport, and when these shootings took place and these dead bodies were on the ground the survivors ran over and said, "We need some help" -- they had some guns -- and they said, "No, we can't interfere." And then it got dark and the next statement was: "We can't interfere."

The radio towers mysteriously went out in Jonestown on Saturday morning -- their only communication with San Francisco; there were no telephones. It reminded me of the police car in Dallas, Texas after Kennedy was killed, and the switchboards at the White House to the police cars in Memphis, Tennessee [when Martin Luther King was killed] -- the radio communication was cut off for a few moments. The Jonestown radio tower to San Francisco wasn't working. The excuse for not getting in was that it was dark, even though they have helicopters that can light up the whole jungle. We've used them in Vietnam, and the LAPD uses them to light up parts of town. They were available and not too far away.

Then they said they were moving troops in cautiously, but on foot. And they had a long way to go in by foot, which just stalled time to get in there to see who was alive or who could be saved. Then they said they were flying in airplanes from the United States, but they would have to be assembled in Georgetown. Every stalling device was used.

I have a Washington Post article from the Thursday after the murders -- the deaths were on Saturday -- and by Thursday they were sending in U.S. troops to get the bodies where they could have come in four days earlier. Everything was rotten and smelly and more difficult and expensive to identify. They said there was no money to send the bodies back to San Francisco but the four days that they rotted in the sun made the work so expensive -- into the millions of dollars -- and storing them in an Air Force base in Delaware and delaying it made it too expensive; Instead of sending them right to San Francisco where they could be handled they sent them to Dover Air Force Base.

Everything smacks of racism. Some of the survivors were supposed to be sent to Charleston, South Carolina, according to a refugee relocation point. They didn't even say anything about returning them to San Francisco. But to put them to South Carolina where H.E.W. would give them some money and they could pay the government back, and work back, as if they haven't worked hard enough.

Many of these people were elderly people that had worked all of their lives, that had homes they had given to Jim Jones, they had savings, and they had social security checks. And many of the checks were going down there. Instead of cashing those for each person and using that one month's check for their burial, they went into lump sums to pay back the government for delaying the bodies, processing, and fingerprinting. It doesn't go back to the individual who's left in some refrigerator or coffin in Delaware at the present time. So if some were to be relocated in South Carolina for whatever reason -- I can't imagine....yes, I can imagine. I take it back. I think I know what it was, as I said before, I think there is something they don't want you to see on these people. The first 7 or 8 people to come home were aged people who came into Kennedy Airport. If they're senile, if their memory is gone, we can say, "They are in a state of shock. We haven't seen them in a long time, if ever, before." And they sent the oldest, the few old people in.

There's no way of knowing the state of mind of the younger people, whether these people were experimented on, because they're dead and they're rotted.

In 1972 Dr. Jolly West of the CIA -- who was Jack Ruby's doctor at the time of Ruby's trial, for shooting Lee Harvey Oswald -- had moved out to California to the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, where they planned a Center for the Study and Reduction of Violence. This is Ronald Reagan's baby, and if he gets to be President you can be sure they'll pull this one out again; out of the woodwork. This was planned in 1972 and the plans were submitted to the California Department of Health in Sacramento in April of 1973. I had written an article about this Neuropsychiatric Institute, exposed it as being a part of the CIA, and said that it would involve Third World people. It would involve the poor, the prisoners, the Indians. I have a pamphlet here from a demonstration about this experience. It said: "Will the violence be against our children, Third World people, women, prisoners, sexual minorities (such as homosexuals and gays or lesbians), mental patients, and you?"

"What is happening," I asked, "about Jolly West?" And I had some questions to answer. Well, a group of us got a hold of the presentation papers in Sacramento for the funding for this institute, this Neuropsychiatric Institute at UCLA, which really came under LEAA Health, Education and Welfare. But they wanted some California money also. One of the studies that was to be done was an S. M. Heilig, H-E-I-L-I-G. Doesn't even say doctor; he's got an M.S.W. He wanted to study trends in self-directed violence and find out why there's so many suicides among the young. One of the studies was to work on suicide.

Another was on hyperkinetic children. They would have child guidance clinics and study school-aged children who suffer from this "condition." It doesn't say anything about the parents being drugged or divorced or poverty, or no jobs or unemployment, ten or twelve to a room, television night and day, high sugar, white flour, or diet -- if anything. They were to study these children and one of the plans was to take a mass amount of youths from the Los Angeles area and use them for experimentations, and compare them to normal children, as against hyperkinetic children. Or suicidal people as against non-suicidal.

A Sydney Cohn, who's on television all the time, an M.D., was to study LSD and psychopharmacological effects of marijuana, heroin, and so forth.

Another study was the prediction of violence -- Now this was the important thing. They were going to take well people and guess whether they had the potential for violence. American Indians, poor blacks, women. They were to do a study, that I have here, on whether women are violent when they menstruate.

One of the subjects was to [study] cult murders. A Dr. Jivan Tabibian,(?) a P.H.D., not an M.D., was to study sky-jackings, cult murders, and violence by fanatics. They had a long list of subjects they were going to study. [I believe it's possible that among these studies was] this Jonestown -- when I read the parallel of studies of mass suicides, former drug addicts, women, black, potentially violent, deprived, good cross-section of women, sexual fantasies, and problems, which is what he instilled in them by telling them they had to be homosexuals, and then they could study it.

I thought this outline of what they planned in 1972 and '73 was interesting in lieu of the fact that so many welfare children were sent from a continuation school in the San Francisco area, and Oakland, down to Jonestown. They were given to Jim Jones: this fanatic, this racist, bigot, torturer. A man filled with sexual fantasies and fears. "Problem children" from the bay area -- and all these people came from the bay area -- were shipped down there.

We fought -- "we" meaning a handful of people -- demonstrated up in Sacramento and fought this school, this Neuropsychiatric Study, that was supposed to center on violence. This was in 1973, but it began to be started in 1972. Then in 1974 the Committee of the Judiciary of the United States Senate -- and I've given you the address on the printed sheet -- had an inquiry into Individual Rights and the Federal Role in Human Behavior. A book of 651 pages. And a good hunk of that book has to do with that UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute. And one of the things Senator Sam Ervin wanted to know, he wrote a letter asking:

"...whether Dr. William Sweet, Dr. Vernon Mark, or Dr. Frank Ervin will perform any work at UCLA project. I understand that Dr. Sweet and Ervin are now associated with the Neuropsychiatric Institute of UCLA and that they are closely aligned with types of projects to be conducted. Their work in the past has raised questions with regard to the constitutional rights of the subjects of their experiments."

Dr. Vernon Marks and Dr. Frank Ervin and Dr. William Sweet went on the theory that the reason why the blacks rioted in Newark and Detroit in 1967 is that there is something in the black make up that causes some blacks to be violent, and others aren't. They began brain experiments and electrode implants at Boston Hospital in Massachusetts after the '67-'68 riots. They began experimental mental programs on blacks of all kinds, and poor, to see what makes them trigger off, or how can we keep them happy.

Then they moved out to UCLA to start working with this Neuropsychiatric Institute. One of the things that was so frightening about that institute was the fact that they wanted a secret base, which reminds me very much of Jonestown.

Incidentally, one of the coordinators of this neuropsychiatric project was James Fisk -- former high-ranking officer in the Los Angeles Police Department who was linked to the Criminal Conspiracy Section that Louis Tackwood had talked about, and was teaching political science at UCLA.

On page 357 of this book -- I'll give you some quotations on the printed sheet, I'll give you the full letter -- there's a letter by Dr. Louis Jolyon West, who was also identified at the time of the Senator Church Hearings in 1976 as positively working with the CIA. He had written to J.M. Stubblebine. Mr. Stubblebine at the time we were protesting this institute was head of the State of California Department of Mental Health. He had written to Dr. Stubblebine and he said:

    DEAR STUB: I am in possession of confidential information to the effect that the Army is prepared to turn over Nike missile bases to state and local agencies for non-military purposes. They may look with special favor on health-related applications.

This is the Federal Army that had missile bases, Nike missile bases. They would turn them over to that Mental Health Department and a CIA doctor, Dr. West, who was working with men who were experimenting on blacks, poor blacks, Indians, children, and women. And they would give him this property.

    Such a Nike missile base is located in the Santa Monica Mountains, within a half-hour's drive of the Neuropsychiatric Institute.

That's UCLA, University of California at Los Angeles.

It is accessible but relatively remote.

Does that remind you of Jonestown? That is accessible, it's on a river, boats came and went, open harbor for weapons, medications, drugs, people visiting, but remote. It has its own airstrip, and the people in Guyana hardly knew the place existed after this came down. It's removed from Georgetown. And this Neuropsychiatric Institute would be removed from Los Angeles proper.

He said:

    It is accessible but relatively remote. The site is securely fenced, and includes various buildings and improvements making it suitable for prompt occupancy.
    If this site were made available to the Neuropsychiatric Institute as a research facility, perhaps initially as an adjunct to the new Center for Prevention of Violence, we could put it to very good use. Comparative studies could be carried out there, in an isolated but convenient location, of experimental or model programs for the alteration of undesirable behavior.

Now this is important because Jim Jones was always telling them they were bad; that they were naughty; that they were guilty. They had to write letters that they didn't like. They were stripped and punished. Children were thrown down wells and put under water until they almost drowned. They were put under floor boards and locked up from one to six days -- in empty hollow spaces. They were told they were naughty and bad and they had undesirable behavior. They punished them; they used forms of punishment and drugs.

Dr. Jolly West:

    Such programs might include control of drug or alcohol abuse, modification of chronic anti-social or impulsive aggressiveness.

Jim Jones diagnosed these people as having sometimes chronic anti-social behavior. If they worked twelve hours a day, they couldn't eat dinner until he gave a sermon, and then he told them they could eat. If he gave a sermon for six hours they had to listen. If they objected they were "anti-social." They couldn't have male and female boy- or girlfriends. They had to stay apart, sexually deprived, deprived of food, deprived of sleep. They simply worked all day. This is the work crew, the slaves. Fourteen people in those rooms, ten by twelve feet. And then if they behaved in a way that was impulsive or aggressive they could be drugged and tested.

The site could also accommodate conferences or retreats for instruction of selected groups of mental health-related professionals and of others (e.g. law enforcement personnel, parole officers, special educators) for whom both demonstration and participation would be effective modes of instruction.

This was written by Jolly West, January 22nd 1973, when they were going to get the Nike bases to test these poor people and deprivations and call in people for conferences. That's why when I started this tape I told you Mark Lane said that: "Doctors came in from everywhere. It was a model medical clinic."

After the murders came down of at least 914 people they found syringes, needles, drugs, poisons, and it was a huge medical clinic as much as it was anything else, and not an educational institution.

So who came for the conferences? Were these people being tested? Controlled? Electrodes? Lobotomies? Cloning? Were any of the women pregnant that had to be let to die? Were they implanted, like Adolf Hitler did? Jim Jones said he didn't want a birth rate, but were there experimentations? Of not male to female so that you wouldn't know if a woman got knocked up? Maybe he kept them separate with their homosexual relationships so that they could practice artificial insemination or cloning or taking seeds from women.

We won't know what happened, because there's a contract out to kill anybody who talks. But you have to ask these questions, hard and clear, because sometimes in the last two weeks I have felt guilty that I went with a group of people -- and as I say there weren't many of us -- and I had friends in prison who would have been victims of these electrode testings, implants, and so forth, such as Hugo Pinell, the defendants of the San Quentin Six. There were people that I knew personally who would be the first ones sent down there. And I went up there and fought it and demonstrated. The team had a conference at U.C. Santa Cruz and I fought that, too. So I have to ask the question: If in Jonestown the machetes began [clearing away the property], the land was purchased, and it began to escalate in 1974. It had a clearing place with a medical clinic. Jim Jones himself didn't move down there until the New West article came out questioning what he was doing -- his practices, and so forth in 1977. He went down there for good because he was being figured [out] or linked to politicians up in California, too. And there was a custody fight over a child that he wanted to keep, and he stayed down there. But to me, with my way of thinking, this is the only secret that would allow those bodies to rot beyond the time that they could do autopsies; to allow no press people into see them; to turn everybody face down so you wouldn't see who was there; to have the contingency plan to murder every single person. You see, if the people left with Congressman Ryan, like this one woman did -- and she was shot at point blank -- they would talk and tell what was going on. One girl, Debbie [Layton Blakey], did leave and pleaded with people to investigate. Now her brother is being charged for killing Congressman Ryan and the others. If all of this had been listened to when she pleaded with them; when she escaped from there through a ruse to get out and came back up to Berkeley, California -- if they had listened to her, all of these people would be alive. But I don't think they were meant to be alive. I wonder what kind of tests they were doing, or if anyone was keeping a record of the tests.

Sexual and emotional deprivation, lack of food, lack of sleep, constant guards -- what would Jim Jones gain from this? They say, "Well, he got power from these people; too much power." But it doesn't explain why the State Department wouldn't touch him; How he knew Rosalynn Carter by telling her, "You can call me at my special agency phone"; How he was with the CIA in Brazil; Where he got his $100,000 to go to Ukiah; How he broke Federal Communication laws by having conversations on radio towers that are strictly for business. How did he do all that? Accumulate links to organized crime, millions of dollars, hit squads for anyone who talks? It had to do with some secrets; dark secrets behind those walls.

Jolly West concluded his letter to Mr. Stubblebine, M.D. He said:

    My understanding is that a direct request by the Governor, or another appropriate officer of the State, to the Secretary of Defense (or, of course, the President) would be most likely to produce prompt results. Needless to say, I stand available to participate in any way that might be helpful.

Sincerely yours,

Medical Director

There are fifty-seven pages in this Committee of the Judiciary Hearings of the UCLA Project. So I have to ask the question: If it was canceled, was the intent of studying the juveniles, the Indians, the blacks, the women -- was the intent to ship them down to Guyana from the San Francisco area? Could they use a man with as much charisma as Jim Jones? His father was in the Klan who passed himself off as a liberal. Jim Jones was a man who helped the poor and loved the poor, but actually was an outright racist, and anybody around him knew it. He played tricks with their minds. He played magic tricks on curing their diseases.

One of the interesting things is that the day before the hearings were finished and the report was done, there was a letter pleading for this Neuropsychiatric Institute to begin. Secretary Earl Brian, who worked under Ronald Reagan at the Education, Health and Welfare, wrote:

"In just four years in California..."

And these are what I call the California murders,

"...we have had 62 mass murders by sick individuals."

You see, no links, no conspiracy -- by "sick individuals." And it suggests that last Tuesday we had the killing of Oakland School Superintendent Marcus Foster, and on the basis of the killing of Dr. Foster last Tuesday we have to go ahead and study these causes of violence. We then learn in January or February of 1974 that Dr. Foster was killed by Romero and Little of the CIA. [I wrote extensively about this in] "The SLA Is The CIA." It was a group of Nazis that said they were going to kill this man who was working with a white man [Mr. Blackburn]. They called him "The Salt and Pepper Man." The black man, Dr. Marcus Foster, got cyanide bullets, and this school chief that worked with him only got a regular bullet, and he's still alive today. That triggered off the notorious Symbionese Liberation Army.

In the end of the appeals of the group that wanted the study of violence -- that institute down there -- they said that there's:

"...callous disregard for public safety...we have gone ahead and initiated a special task force within the Department of Health to study all existing laws and administrative regulations relating to mentally disordered criminal offenders..."

And they complained -- the powers that be that wanted this, this Earl Brian -- complained that his hands were tied in initiating the Center for the Study and Reduction of Violence. It was pigeon-holed by the California Legislature that year, and that they would have to go about finding another means: "Go ahead and get a special force going."

What I fear is that because the California Assembly cut off the money for the school, this study, the Causes of Violence at UCLA, that it went into Jim Jones' operation and was shipped down to Guyana. That is possibly the place where people could be tested. And when anybody came in to see what was happening they were all prepared to die, and those who weren't were poisoned.

My worst fear is that the State Department, HEW, the FBI, the San Francisco Police, the Los Angeles Police, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Defense Department, all knew what was going on in Guyana. Therefore, when Congressman Ryan went there they had to let him die and be sacrificed.

This is a broad subject and I hope that my first week on this isn't too confusing. We'll do much more in the weeks to come. If you have any questions, write or call me and I'll include them on the tapes for you.

This is Mae Brussell in Carmel. Next week I'll also do more about the killing of Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk in San Francisco, and the links to the Peoples Temple.